anitations

collected discourse on K-ON

ascaloth: a straight forward, mostly descriptive review. He ends with:

And at the end of all things, at the end of the road, it’s finally time to say goodbye to these girls, once and for all. It has been a fun journey, and while this is the last we’ll see of them for a long time to come, the last time that they’ll sing for us After School, we can always take away from this journey the memory of how to enjoy the Light and Fluffy Time of life to its fullest, shedding what worries we may have at the end of the day. And someday, we’ll meet these girls we loved once again.

two commenters say that this episode was a good “send off”.

less blkmage: more opinionated and analytic than ascaloth’s, blkmage states that K-ON

was pretty entertaining until about halfway through the season. At that point, I began to get pretty bored of the whole thing. …What went wrong? What’s different about the slice-of-life formula that K-ON! uses? It’s just cake and moe, right?

It’s easier to quote his comparative section at length:

I’ve found that K-ON! is crtitcized for being too much cake and not enough music. I’ve come to realize that it does focus on music a lot. What’s surprising about this is that I find that this makes it uninteresting like other slice of life shows. See, the problem is that K-ON!’s music parts aren’t done very well. The most interesting thing about the music is watching them perform and that is rendered boring because of their attempts to avoid animating the playing of their instruments as much as possible. That leaves terrible and boring talks about music.

And since they focus on the music more than people realize and because it’s so boring, it renders the entire show boring. Outside of music, the girls are doing the same thing: eating cake instead of practicing, going on trips, and performing without it being animated. Unless they delve into more specific stuff about music, there’s really nowhere else they can go. I mean, when Azusa was introduced, it was just an excuse to repeat what they’d already done.

The difference between K-ON! and Hidamari or Lucky Star was that they didn’t just do the same stuff. Yeah, Hidamari was about art, but the stuff they did outside of that took up more time and was weirder, like the caterpillar or the box of seafood or Yuno’s acid trip when she had a fever. The same applies to Lucky Star, where Konata’s otakuism gives more room for interesting things to happen, like the cosplay cafe or Comiket.

I also remember someone mentioning Manabi Straight. They both share the band of friends trying to accomplish something against all odds, except Manabi Straight had real conflict as opposed to the manufactured crap that happened in episode 11. The characters had problems and they struggled through them and grew. And dear God, I can’t believe anyone would seriously compare Beck with this. Seriously, guys? Just because they both have gitahs?

hanners: delivers a descriptive summary and opinion section:

If nothing else, this episode is masterful at reminding us just how much life has been imbued into the show’s characters over the course of the series – It was actually really quite upsetting to see things going wrong for the girls, before of course they all pull back together in a final scene of abject happiness.

Really, that point is probably the biggest one in favour of K-ON! – Marketing machine it may be at its core, and I know some have felt disenfrachised with it as an actual piece of entertainment as the weeks have drawn on, but if nothing else the series has succeeding in pulling together a group of lovable characters even ignoring those much-discussed “moe elements”. Cute figureheads of that aforementioned marketing machine they may be, but beyond that they also exist as characters that you’d really quite like to spend some time with as genuinely fun characters. It’s that sense of fun that permeates through K-ON! from beginning to end, making it an enjoyable slice of life series in it’s own right – Yes, this show is no Haruhi (and indeed I think the return of that particular franchise has thrown this show’s capabilities into sharp relief in recent weeks), nor is it a study of up and coming musicians as some seemed to expect; it certainly isn’t KyoAni’s best work, but is watching a series just because it leaves you with a warm, fuzzy feeling and a handful of good laughs every week such a bad thing? I would suggest that it isn’t, and measured by those terms K-ON! is nothing if not a relative success.

taikutsu remedy: as more incendiary review, said author writes that K-ON is:

tired, uninspired and derivative. [K-ON] relies on its moe appeal to such an extent that any other matter of substance is sacrificed.

[...]

Kyoani, you can do better then this. Whilst I’m not much of a Haruhi fan, I can objectively say that it is a very good show. Even K-On had brief moments of brilliance; from genuinely witty jokes to inspired directing. But these moments were brief and fleeting. For the most part, you were perfectly content to take the easy path and substitute wit for tired jokes such as Mio getting freaked out or Azusa being moe.

Shame on you, Kyoani. You have creativity and talent to be so much more, yet you rather settle for rubbish. You are not some third rate studio, you are Kyoto Animation. You have supperbly talented directors. You have meticulous and skillful animators. Yet despite all these gifts, you’d rather produce derivative crap that does nothing but stiffle creativity in anime.

also helpful is the author’s posting the first impressions post from April.

janette (borderline hikikomori): talks about expectations:

I honestly really enjoyed and loved this series, and am sad to see it end. Which is odd, because it certainity isn’t the most fantastic/moving show I’ve watched or really spectactular in any way. Now let’s hope no one shoots me for saying that.

Overall, I really loved this series. Which is weird, as while it was a stand-out show for the spring season, in the world of anime it wasn’t really that special. Then again, I don’t think the show needed to be special to be successful.

I think my expectations had a lot to do with me developing a love for this show, as I never expected it to be amazing, or to move me. At first I expected this show to suck majorly, and then as I slowly fell in love with it, I expected to watch the adorable antics of these four and later five girls, and be entertained for half a hour. This show fullfilled these expectations and sometimes did a little more. I never expected too much, so it never let me down.

rabbit poets:

If last week was the spiritual finale to the show, it seems like the writers decided to mail it in for this week. Maybe they were only getting paid for 12 episodes, because I’d want my figurative money back for this episode, which probably shouldn’t have existed and unfortunately ends the show on somewhat of a down note.

All in all, it was a pretty lazy episode, not unlike Haruhi’s Someday in the Rain episode, but unlike that episode, this one didn’t have an awesome end scene to redeem it. When you pull the girls apart, remove their antics and their chemistry, there’s just not much to enjoy. It’s an unfortunate way to end the season, because I loved the show, but could have definitely done without this episode. I’d much rather have had them save their budget making this 13th episode and instead used it to animate more performance scenes throughout the season.

schneider:

I’m surprised how I liked the final episode so much, considering that it was fairly uneventful. A lot of it has to do with how the girls live their personal lives through the winter, which shows some insights on their character.

Overall, I think of K-On as a decent show. I had fun watching it weekly, and was pretty low-maintenance (meaning you wouldn’t be so pumped to get the latest sub floating around), compared to, say, Eden of the East. Sure, complain that the animation is below normal KyoAni quality, but it still kicks the ass out of many shows. I find it inoffensive, though, to be unfruitful for trolling. This is not Beck, or God Knows drawn out to 13 episodes. Deal with it, because I did, and it saves all of us some grief.

crusader:

Overall it wasn’t the best series EVAR, but it was enjoyable even if the music did not feature as prominently as I had initially hoped. I suppose as a slice of life thing it works as a tale of a club of four and later five girls and their very talented Teacher Advisor. To be sure there was lots of moe fodder to be had, but in the end it was kind of the point even if it got excessive at times. In the end I can only really recommend it for yuri subtext, moe, and some moments of comedy. On that level it does succeed, but it is hardly ground breaking.

derailed by darry:

Sigh. Kyoto and their sugar-free, fat-free “extra” episodes. I would have loved for K-On! to end on a high note, like their recent concert or Mio getting trained or Mio getting lesbian stalked, but, no, we’re getting a K-On! re-enactment of Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya 9. Though I like having more material, I just wish the material was… uh… better.

While this episode wasn’t as big of a tone shift as the Ritsu jealousy episode, I think this episode proves that K-On! is at it’s best when its working in its clever gags that really bring out the personalities of the characters. Kakifly has just been awesome at it in the manga, and I’d rather see more of that goodness than Ritsu going love struck.

deculture:

wtf KyoAni?! I don’t even know where to begin. The last episode left me absolutely speechless as to how pointless things got. Ever since Haruhi, Kyoto Animation seems have had a licence to put out moe mediocrity and fanboys seem to swallow their shit up with every iteration.

The last episode was the epitome of this shit being dragged out to please the fans. [add vitriol]

See, wasting time on ordinary shit is only acceptable if it’s in Haruhi, because it never is ordinary with her. Nothing is. Plus the characters are too good, except Mikuru. Too moe and well deservedly messed around by Haruhi. Anyways, back to K-On!

For people who want to start watching it, expect nothing more than what you had with Lucky Star. Great characters, nothing happens in the end except whatever they do everyday. Maybe I expect greatness from everything KyoAni does. Whatever, Haruhi season 2 better be good or Ima have to choke a bitch.

and of course, there’s the Kaioshin post.

by † admin Posted on 29 June 2009 in Collected

colony drop, “Operation British, Phase Three: The Case Against Haruhi Suzumiya” 3.0

Reinhard gets his own post, because we live free or reinhard.

Reinhard: i will continue to lol:

by their definition, nanoha is a harem because there’s one dude (yuno) and like 20 female characters.

sailor moon is a harem because there’s one dude (tuxedo mask) and like 10 female characters.

golgo 13 is a harem because there’s one dude (duke togo) and like a million women he fucks.

Reinhard:for some reason, i got an error when i tried to post this comment on the site:

First:

1) A harem series consists of a blank self-insert
2) A harem series consists of sex objects
3) Duke Togo is a blank self-insert
4) Golgo 13 has lots of naked sexxxay ladies (getting fucked by the self-insert, natch)

Therefore, Golgo 13 is a harem series

Next:

1) Golgo 13 is a harem series (see above)
2) Harem series are shit
3) Therefore, Golgo 13 is shit

Chiyo-chichi: golgo certainly does a lot of self-inserting

Wenli: inserting eh.

Counterattack of the GRSI Comments 1.0
Counterattack of the GRSI Comments 2.0

by † Owen S Posted on 25 June 2009 in Notes & colony drop

colony drop, “Operation British, Phase Three: The Case Against Haruhi Suzumiya” 2.0

via David, who said that we were “fundamentally missing the point.” (Still ongoing!)

Alto-hime: I wonder if there’s any real integrity with their position, or is it just part of the schtick they do.

Chiyo-chichi: They seem to feel pretty real about some of this stuff. I’ll be the first to say that if you’re a hipster wearing a mullet ironically, you still have a mullet. But the position that COLONY DROP STAFF (LOL) takes is that no parody will ever work.

“Simply pointing out the stupidity of heavy metal bands doesn’t excuse Spinal Tap from being one.”

“Simply pointing out how awful air disaster movies are doesn’t excuse Airplane! from relying on air disaster as its central plot point.”

Not saying Haruhi’s as brilliant as Spinal Tap, I’m not delusional. But the point stands.

Xingke: So wait, Haruhi is both a “self-insert” and a “moe heroine”? Anime fans really are messed up…

I’d suggest that this piece went wrong at approximately sentence two, otherwise agree with most of the above counter-argument. At the same time, not being a Colony Drop reader, I’m slightly surprised at some of the general hostility to the site over here. This is a site whose frontpage suggests low comment count, is that just because no-one wants to talk to them? When did they acquire the negative rep?

Wenli:I don’t think badly of Colony Drop guys. They have a schtik and they play it very pro. However since they have really low output (like, what, 2 posts a month?) and their pieces do not inspire serious thought, Colony Drop caters to a small niche of the internet audience.

Kino:I thought that Colony Drop just hated everything mainstream, but I stopped reading them after they claimed that every anime blog on the internet was shti unless they stamped it with the COLONY DROP STAFF SEAL OF APPROVAL.

Chiyo-chichi:yeah I don’t know if stopping by comments of other blogs just to say how much better they are is a really “pro” schtick.

I guess I admire their stick-to-it-iveness, but I’m not sure what the audience would look for: they don’t inspire discussion, they don’t really encourage it, and the schtick itself makes them questionable as a trusted source for reviews.

Wenli:I don’t read it until someone links me, which ends up covering like, 80% of their total posts anyways.

If there’s a fault, I’d say they troll way too hard for what they’re trying to do.

Hei: I think their fault lies in tooting their horn (read: taste in anime) atop their little hill while declaring that they have the higher ground and that their hill is bigger and better than any other person’s hill when they’ve built said hill on… what was it again? Ah, yes. ANN-esque taste and reviews to match said taste.

Wenli:Really? I think it’s clearly an act, unlike ANN.

Hei: So, Wenli, you’re saying that there’s hope for them to see the light, unlike ANN?

I don’t know. A lot of their macho posturing comes off as the real McCoy, especially when you frame it in the context of “Robots good, moe bad”, but not always. It’s the R1-faggotry, the pseudo-old-school (because they’re not really old; ghostlightning is old, and he knows what real old-school is) bullshit championed by this select group of Americans usually hell bent on asserting their superiority in the face of new anime.

In other words, fandumb!

Alto-hime: animekritik is older than a year, and focuses on even older shows (matsumoto leiji works) and isn’t interested in a rhetoric of superior/discerning taste.

I think that a review site’s capital is, for better or worse its taste and the way it’s articulated. However, in their case I think the lines drawn are indelible and there is no space for growth — as it, or they — can only interpret any change/relaxing of their stance as weakness or compromise.

Believe it or not, **** and I have had civil exchanges after our escalating hostile ones:

http://****.****.***

I happen to think that he is probably one of the most learned Macross fans in the web and is a big deal in the community (I am hardly known, since I’m mostly a lurker in the forums). The difference between us is that he takes on a very elitist stance: i.e. he views Macross Frontier as an insult to his intelligence as a viewer, and a betrayal to him as a fan. I don’t subscribe to such attitudes at all, but I get it. (I would be on the raving fanboy end of the sliding scale, which is also why I do not write reviews; but instead endorsements and propaganda)

This attitude that I’ve observed in his reviews and his behavior in the Macross World Forums (where he is far more civil to others) suggests that he really believes in their taste, and the fundamental position they take.

Now, the reference to ‘Colony Drop’ and ‘Operation British’ is classic Universal Century Gundam. What I can tell those who are unfamiliar with the franchise is that there is little reason not to read these as hostility. Hostility is their methodology, and their schtick is an appeal to some dark comic realm that can resonate with a few like-minded and perhaps sophisticated readers, but will antagonize everyone else.

Wenli: Hei: You’re almost right. The difference is the writer’s distance. ANN is the real McCoy, Colony Drop is a mix of “this is so ludicrous I can’t believe they are serious” and “yeah we’re just pandering to the R1 fake old-school fandumb crowd, because somebody has to.”

Reinhard: make sure you use that phrase “fake old-school” rather than just “R1″ or whatever, Hei.

(i cannot stop loling at their whole insistence at a kind of elitist “taste” in something so middlebrow as macross. ugh, that middlebrow show is so awful compared to this middlebrow show. it’s not like they’re saying “stop watching k-on and go watch kaiba” or “stop watching gundam 00 and watch mind game” here!)

Wenli: Also, FWIW, at least one of Colony Drop’s writer is in Japan. So yeah, it may only be R1 in upbringing at the most.

Hei: You can take the gaijin out of America, but you can’t take the America out of the gaijin?

Alto-hime: In a preview to to spring season one of them said Dragon Ball Kai was awesome because “[what's the matter with you!!?] it’s Dragon Ball!”

That’s their taste too.

Wenli: Hei, that would make an awesome book title. The market is ripe for this crap too!

Counterattack of the GRSI Comments 1.0

by † Owen S Posted on 25 June 2009 in Notes & colony drop

colony drop, “Operation British, Phase Three: The Case Against Haruhi Suzumiya”

via

in response to said article (names altered to protect privacy?):

Hei: hahahahahahahahahhahaha. Actually I just realised that what I really want to read is a Kaioshin writing for Colony Drop. Yeah.

Shiraishi: Wow… never has the truth hurt so much…

Hei: Wow, whoever you are, Shiraishi, you’re as retarded as them.

Reinhard: lololololololololololololololololololol. (i think the problem is less of haruhi and more the fact that the show deconstructed the genre, but then didn’t rebuild it in any good way, just leaving this guy to RAEG)

Hei: They started to feast on highly concentrated dumb at the point where they mentioned “harem”, and everything went downhill from that point.

Wenli: Yeah, I think once they mentioned harem this post was done. I guess they missed the memo that most 21st century self-inserts loath true harems. They just want the appeal of one. The QB comparison is particularly laugh-worthy. He tried to contrast them but I guess he forgot about the people who want smug protagonists in science fiction!

Alto-hime: Note the resistance to call anime anime. They gave up because it sounds too stupid to say Harem-Jap-Cartoon or Jap-cartoon landscape. And for Colony Drop to something, ANYTHING intolerable for being smug…I dunno, maybe they read tj_han’s guide to being cool

Hei: Don’t forget the hilarious Intent card where they insist that Kyon approaches some sort of quasi-blank-slate animeveryman archetype without realising that yes, people can be sarcastic in real life, too! Oh, and that his real name isn’t revealed, ergo he must be intended to be some self-insert!

I am as sarcastic in real life as I am online, and this must make me:

1) Unrealistic
2) A self-insert (but of whom?)

Speaking of intent, it’s funny how they play the Intent card at the beginning and conveniently forget to play it during the Genre step where what goes unsaid hangs in the air like the silent stench of the stealth fart: It’s only harem if the girls are actively vying for the protagonist, stupid!

I don’t really see how anyone but Haruhi herself approaches anything close to romantic interest in Kyon. Mikuru definitely isn’t, and Yuki, well… yeah. I guess it is some sort of weird triangular non-harem if you consider Itsuki as gay4Kyon but… no. So stupid. Sooooo stupid.

by † admin Posted on 24 June 2009 in Notes & colony drop

Kaioshin, Time Out! (Because I’m Sick And Tired Of People Telling Me I’m Watching K-On Wrong)

via

he says:

I’m talking of course about the defence where people claim that those who didn’t appreciate K-On must have failed to realize the type of show K-On was in a slice of life comedy and that it was because it was never meant to be an ambituous series that those who watched it for the “right” reasons and as a “light and fluffy” series should find it to be a satisfying piece. Basically the idea is that those who criticized K-On must have missed the point of it all and that therefore their reactions are the wrong ones for the series.

to which JP indirectly responds (via google reader)

slice of life” is such a great defense for something that’s completely derivative/cliched/boring/unimaginative/uneventful/etc. “it wasn’t funny and nothing happened and the characters weren’t interesting, but you know, it’s a slice of life show so that’s OK!

The general tl;dr fare occuring at this disclosed location in the sphere prevents me from reading the original post anyway; however, zzero pointed me towards what he deemed a trainwreck discussion [via]. Uncoincidentally, Kaioshin is very active in this ‘trainwreck’ animesuki thread.

in other words:

by † lelangir Posted on 22 June 2009 in Collected & Kaioshin & jpmeyer

omi-chin, Thoughts On The Weeaboo

via

For example, the wwwwwwww thing. It’s annoying and I don’t understand how it’s become(ing) so widespread. It doesn’t even work in any language outside of Japanese. ghostlightning rightly said that it was easier to type out than loooooool but something about it still feels off. It’s a step too far, in my opinion, replacing something that’s served well enough in the past for no reason. It’s the type of thing that happened with the 2chan emoticons, only not nearly as well applied. The various 2chan emoticons seemed more like upgrades of standard emoticons and so worked quite well

I like wwwwwww because, as ghost says, it’s easy as hell. Yet its connotation is very potent. While ‘lol’ and ‘wwwwwww’ basically denote the same thing (I forget where I read that “w” is just an abbreviated 笑), I use ‘wwwww’ to signify really sarcastic humor. At least for me, wwwwww is pretty much equivalent to saying “OMFGZ ROFLBBQSAUCE11!!! GUHROOGAMESH!!!JELFKJSLJRjairjoi#u%oqiurjf.” On the other hand, lol is more “formal”, signifying “hey, this is funny.”

wwwwwwwww is so useful precisely because it doesn’t “work” outside Japanese – that’s where its connotation comes from. Weeaboo using wwwwww is self-referential, laughing at and with themselves, but always directing humor towards whatever is they’re laughing at. Wtf omi-chin, I expected better of you.

[site note - this site appears helpful, not like I know if it's well-known or not.]

by † lelangir Posted on 17 June 2009 in Notes

omo et al. on “By silverfish imperatrix whose incorrupted eye…”

cuz N told me to. [original post] [those reading in a reader may want to read on the blog for a more sensible presentation]

omo: well written but has the usual marks of “hey this is animu, I use an incompatible framework for a deeper look anyways, lulz” issue. very telling though.

cuchlann: I’m not sure why it’s incompatible — I’m not going to pretend I’m Japanese just because what I’m watching came from Japan, just as I wouldn’t expect anyone else to pretend they’re American. And I’m pretty sure SF criticism applies to SF.

ghost: I don’t get why incompatible either. Is it a high vs. low culture thing? (lols) Is it a visual vs. text issue? Reading methodologies (literary criticism) is quite adaptible once you consider that most things are texts subject to interpretation (i.e. reading).

omo: You can use any framework you want to compare anything, but it could come off kind of silly, is all.

Don’t you find it ironic to say things like everything in the paragraph that started with “So the anime shifted audience focus…”? Are you going to ignore the fact that the whole thing took place in /Neo Venezia/? Do you know there is a real Venezia? Do you know what Aria really is on the surface?

Second, Aria doesn’t take place in an utopia. Unless you think peaceful civilizations are utopic in general. Better put, if I watch a “Come visit Venice!” ad video, it would frame Venice’s attractions similarly as an Aria undine; just much less personal. In other words, it’s a matter of perspective rather than its setting’s construction.

Take a Buddhist view: utopia begins within.

Or better yet: watch Gakuten Utopia Manabi Straight and learn what the word means for the Japanese.

I think it’s a good thing that you talk about utopia, because in a way that’s what Aria is about. But I think most English bloggers don’t because in the West we generally don’t call the same concept by that name.

ghost: No problem about silliness, if that’s the concern. Animu blogging is (or at least in my case) is out of ‘foppery and whim’ (to use an LotGH quote). However this cavalier attitude isn’t really asking for a dismissal.

Now Jeff, your criticism of the text is valid — but the difference now is that it doesn’t seem like a dismissal but rather discussion, which is what I or I assume Greg would welcome. What you said about utopia is very interesting.

@TheBigN

Putting in more than one needs to is not that easy to measure. If one’s purpose is to merely enjoy, not a lot is required. Aria can be appreciated very easily. But it so happens that Greg with everything he knows/is interested in actually has quite a bit to offer in terms of exploring Aria.

Look at it as exploring possibilities of meaning, as opposed to getting to the ‘truth’ of what Aria is.

BigN: Well, that’s not necessarily what I meant by saying “more than one needs”. I look at it in terms of “well, I think I get what he’s saying, so all this other stuff seems extraneous”. But that varies from person to person. And to be honest, I don’t really think that Cuchlann did that in this article. I just used him as an example since we’re talking about his post.

omo: No problem about silliness. I wish it was just less time consuming in order to get to the punch line.

Cuchlann wrote a lot about sci-fi utopia, open/close, w/e. Is it relevant to Aria? I don’t know. Perhaps it is foppery and whim but my patience thins within the TL;DR. But I still read because his writing deserves better! And I didn’t really had time to respond in kind, nor do I do so on greader as I prefer to actually comment on the post if I am going to talk about substance.

FWIW, the only one around these parts doing any kind of dismissing is Owen :V

cuchlann: For now: I would stand behind my classification of Aria as a utopia. Didn’t come up with that myself, I think I saw it first on the wikipedia. At least, Aqua itself — there appears to be no social strife at all, in the first 13.

omo: I highly disagree. There are some evidence of social strife in Aria (and actual instances of it–like the whole girls high school mechanics within the larger undine houses). Then again, when the Akiba hit-and-stab happened it was as shocking as it ever was, and I can see that sort of a thing happen and getting the same response from the residents of Neo Venezia.

ghost: If that’s the evidence of social strife, then it is quite utopic — unless we stick to a strict definition that conflict is reduced to zero.

The back-talk in Himeya Co. don’t really result in slander or libel or career/corporate destabilization. The gossip is already the worst as it can possibly get.

In any case, the difference between Neo Venezia societal peace and warmth and most contemporary cities on Earth is very striking. Relatively speaking it’s quite an utopia.

omo: But that betrays the fact that Neo Venezia is not presented in the whole via Aria. It’s more like a boring countryside world with nice landscape shots. If there’s a schtik to Aria it is the way you see the world depends on your perspective; it’s the job of an undine to frame it for their customers, and it’s that rope that they learn as trainees.

“Real life undines” are not far removed from tourist traps, working in a country full of corruption and social unrest. But you can definitely have a wonderful time in Venice.

North Dakota is not an utopia by any means, even if crime rate is pretty much nil and people generally get by with their day-to-day work just fine. Social strife? Does being cut off while driving count? In a country that spans from sea to shining sea, does a riot at one coast imply the same on the other coast? Would anyone call Japan utopia just because of its low crime rate? How do you define utopia? Only when there’s social strife? Is it possible many Americans social strife is something they only see on TV or read in the papers? I think if you’re going to arbitrary draw lines, you ought to at least look at the big picture.

cuchlann: A utopia is a science fiction setting where technology has changed society, fixing the problems the creators of the fiction have particularly lined up as being relevant. Aria is a world constructed from non-existent terraforming technologies where the society functions in a perfect hierarchy, with full freedom of movement through the still-equal class system, there is no shortage of any resource, and, after all, the show/manga is classified a utopia by its creators/marketers.

And I love Manabi Straight — but it’s not a utopia. It’s the opposite, in fact — a dystopia. Technology has brought about the ruin of the educational/social system that the show, and the characters, value. The title indicates the characters’ attempts to create an utopic environment, with generally high success. However, the setting in general is not a utopia by any means.

Which is not to say there isn’t a lot of discussion in what constitutes a utopia, or whether Aria is best examined through that lens. But to set up a false comparison with selected strata of real-life society, which is never utopic — by definition, as it’s not fiction — serves no purpose.

omo: But Aria is a parallel with real life in its core. I don’t really believe it fixed anything besides unlike the first Venezia, Neo Venezia doesn’t sink into the ocean. I don’t see anything about “perfect hierarchy” from the show at all (if anything there is a sense of hierarchy maintained throughout and it doesn’t seem perfect from those who are “under” it), there is definitely a shortage of resource (just listen to what the Man-Home tourists say about the differences). It’s run much like a space colony version of your average countryside. I believe it’s merely the creators’ choices to not focus on any of the shortcomings people face (well, certain types of shortcomings at least). For what it is worth, Akatsuki is your typical country-side youth who is not exactly content with his life, but gets by because of his strong feelings for the people there.

I mentioned Manabi Straight because the creators also called it a utopia–in a very strong way. So you can’t have it both ways :p

My point, ultimately, is that you can’t really call it utopia without understanding what they mean by it. Which is not what you mean by it.

Let me just step back and outline the points of issues:
1. You use the term utopia in a very specific sense, and I don’t believe this is what the Japanese mean by the word Manabi Straight’s title, and probably in whatever the source of Aria’s wiki article.
2. I don’t believe there are any positive examples in Aria to support your claims and yet I can think of many counterexamples and inferences to say that your claims are invalid.
3. Yet you dismiss those counterexamples arbitrarily, as far as I can tell.

cuchlann: Well, if I seemed rude last night, I’m sorry about that, I was just tired.

Basically, I saw you attempted to use real-life examples to define a utopia, which doesn’t work. It’s a fictional construct.

If we have different interpretations of what a utopia is, that’s fine. I would like to point out the entire post wasn’t about Aria as a utopia, just a part of it.

To clear it up, then, what do you think the Japanese mean by the term “utopia” that makes it different from the traditional?

omo: I had this half-typed up reply but work+other stuff ate it.

Let’s just say that I think Aria is a piece that’s functionally a touristy escapism piece so an idealized world is part of its draw. At the same time it is very different than a literary utopia because Aria doesn’t seek to solve any social problems using technology–it just ignores them, much like an advertisement avoids the negatives of what it advertises. So it’s not really about any kind of utopia.

ghost: Interpretation A is proven to be best, therefore B should not be considered anymore?

Just for thought, I don’t think the post argues that the interpretation within invalidates other possible interpretations, or should be considered the primary reading of the text.

Well, at least that’s not how I read it, or how I put forth my own posts.

And no this isn’t an appeal to ‘let’s all just get along, no one’s wrong really, etc. etc.’

omo: I think my problem is that interpretation B begs to ask a question which interpretation A answers, and since interpretation A invalidates interpretation B, it makes B an odd perspective. I mean I guess it goes to the point that you can comparing anything with anything, and something interesting or useful may come as a result. But why do that if you don’t know if that is the case?

I think another point about literary utopia that is important is that AFAIK all stories with utopia as part of the narrative element use said utopia to illustrate some point. I just don’t see this in Aria, so it makes you wonder why did the creators make that idealized world, and what can a reader gain from comparing that world with the real one?

IIRC, this is left unanswered in the post.

cuchlann: Well, there’s a little in there, but it wasn’t developed. Specifically, I wondered at Aria, as a utopia, not doing what you’re describing. So the question then comes down to this: is the examination of a social point/issue a requirement of a utopia, or something that is frequently done with it but not always?

I was taking the standpoint, originally, that it’s often used, but not required. There’s a very strong case, however, for thinking it’s required. The first Utopia (book of same name, by More), was a social argument and not a work of fiction at all. I feel, though, that the genre has stretched a little.

omo: I think it still comes down to just how strictly do you want to define utopia, then. A setting that doesn’t have any kind of conflict or tension is difficult to mount a narrative, and at any rate that is not what Aria is. The characters in Aria still live in an imperfect world and have to deal with their imperfections. Now just how trivial are these little bits of feelings (”OHNOES MY GONDOLA IS GOING TO DIE^H^H^HGET RECYCLED” /cry) is up to you to decide should it make or break utopia or is this utopia not quite perfect because science in Aria has not invented a perfect substitute for pressure treated wood which lasts forever when used in boating.

I mean, seriously, they spent 3 episodes on it!!!

ghost: Yes, this. I’ve mentioned it eariler. It depends on how strictly we define utopia.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/utopia

utopia
2 entries found.

1. utopia
2. anti–utopia

Main Entry:
uto·pia Listen to the pronunciation of utopia
Pronunciation:
\yu̇-ˈtō-pē-ə\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Utopia, imaginary and ideal country in Utopia (1516) by Sir Thomas More, from Greek ou not, no + topos place
Date:
1597

1: an imaginary and indefinitely remote place
2often capitalized : a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions
3: an impractical scheme for social improvement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia

I think the practical use of the term is broad enough to say that in utopic idealizations conflict, entropy, deceit is NOT zero. Rather, that the setting is very capable of resolving, dealing with such problems — if they are to be considered evils AT ALL.

Let us consider that Aria is not an utopia in the sense that when we die, Neo Venezia is exactly like ‘heaven,’ rather, given the conditions that humans of that setting have gone through — it is an idealized place, due to its pace, it’s balance of ease and lack of technological shortcuts (Man-home has more conveniences), and the behavior of its inhabitants (perhaps including cats).

by † admin Posted on 11 June 2009 in Chuchlann & Collected & ghostlightning & omo

Owen on DM and author

via secret google society

Owen: I don’t see how K-ON aspires to be Manabi in any way, but Zaitcev’s post is a good demonstration of the fan delusion where they perceive prior works to always be the inspiration/basis for later ones when all they do in reality is share superficial structural similarities.

omo: There’s nothing delusional. Manabi is more or less the same kind of show K-ON is turning out to be. It’s even got that 4+1 thing. I have a pet peeve: comparing RahX and Eva the way DM did. He also dissed Robin, which is a personal favorite. He knows what he’s doing, too, the bastard. For what is worth, Zaitcev doesn’t even claim influence. That’s something Owen strawmanned. Maybe understanding what Izubuchi said helps, if you’ve read the whole thing Pete excerpted from.

I don’t even know if it’s a simple “manabi = k-on” thing. It’s more like, it’s a venn diagram whose center portion comprises the whole venn diagram. Saying that “k-on = manabi” is spurious, so to speak, because there’s no causality that one anime “is like” the other, only that they both resemble/contain/exhibit the same structural qualities that aren’t innately beholden to any one anime.

k-on =/= manabi
A, not C

k-on = x = manabi
A, therefore, B, therefore C

x = manabi
x = k-on

B, therefore C
B, therefore A
but (still)
A =/= C

[of course, when there's blatant copying or influence, we can say that A = C]

IKnight: If you’ve seen something before, and it resembles what you’re watching now, then it forms part of the basis for understanding what you’re watching now in your mind, whether or not there was any actual influence. This works backwards in time (’Legend of the Galactic Heroes? Liked it better when it was Code Geass!’), and across geographical/cultural divides (hence why Simoun reminds me of early Biggles), too.

Or at least that’s my theory.

to critique IKnight’s theory: to say “gurren lagan” is to reference the external, collective culture. TTGL is a signifier which points to a thing we all know, a certain story and all its complexity. However, cultural psychologists make use of the concept of “semiotic mediation” whereby humans internalize the external, collective culture, thereby putting their own “spin” on the external, collective culture: ergo, it creates an internal, personal culture. For instance, a prison has a fairly homogeneous collective culture because it is so routinized, but each prisoner may attach extremely varied personal cultural meaning to, say, a mouse, grasshopper, piece of used toilet paper, etc.

So the statement that “Akikan reminds me of Seed Destiny because I saw Seed Destiny first” doesn’t necessarily hold because you are, by necessity, referring not to the external, collective cultural signifier “Seed Destiny”, but your personal, internalized cultural meaning of Seed Destiny. Given, the internal culture can often highly resemble the external culture, which is why we can, most of the time, get away with saying that “Death Note reminds me of Shuffle! when Light was actually cool”. It’s in those more uncommon situations where internal and external are opposed, i.e. K-ON and Manabi Straight ;]

/end lelanjuice

by † lelangir Posted on 06 May 2009 in Uncategorized

citation form

There’s a burgeoning trend, a new citation style. People tell me OGT vangaurds the movement, and ghostlightning and mein Kaiser appear to be the primary constituents.

There was a super-secret-society google discussion:

Kaiser: In the past, I would have wholly agreed with the above Russell quote. I was more or less an avid subjectivist: what you liked was good. The more you liked it, the better. I have, more or less, abandoned this position in favour of another – quite like Russell did on almost all opinions he ever held, too. So, in light of Pontifus’ current excavations on what art is [->],

lelangir: what is up with this citation form? Ghost’s form is contagious, but for some reason it bothers me…no clue why though.

IKnight: I think gl borrowed the idea from OGT; I don’t know whether he invented it or borrowed it from elsewhere. I’m not a fan, but it’s probably just a taste thing.

omo: Personally I hate that kind of inline footnotes. At least embed anchors so the reader can jump back and forth Wikipedia-style. But I might be biased from having to edit academic papers, so.

OGT: I pulled it out of nowhere, I don’t think I had any source bur deranged inspiration. It’s no better or worse than highlighting a few words and slapping a link on them. ghostlighting and Kaiserpingvin liked that form better because they felt it was less obtrusive and more footnote-y, which it is, so it’s all a kind of visual textual aesthetics thing. I’ve yet to find a satisfactory solution to referencing external posts–it’s an evil, but a necessary one at times. IKnight’s “blogiography” idea is very good, but you still use inline links, right?

ghost: I got it from OGT. It’s a matter of taste I think, as the words don’t turn another color (blue). Useful too, as I can now make several links available for one word/thought. This has allowed me to link several photographic examples that would otherwise clutter the post in an image dump.

IKnight: Yeah, I still use inline links (and blogiographies are rarer now, as I’m making more of an effort to integrate my influences into the flow of my posts . . . or would be if I could set aside some time from essay-writing to work some posts up). I quite like words that a different colour, on purely sentimental, traditionalist grounds (proper names in the Winchester MS of Malory are red, for example).

omo: I think it’s epic FALE to sacrifice readability for aesthetics. Especially since this isn’t print, there’s no compromise necessary.

Here’s my take. With online citations – and I am specifically limiting the scope of my discussion to aniblogohedron discourse – there are two parts: (1) the “referred from” and “referred to”, essentially, the post/blog/etc. the link goes to, and the anchored text in which it is situated. The issue here is multiple ways of situating citations.

“Traditionally”, citations are embedded in the text itself like this. IKnight is well known for his “blogiography” and further reading sections too, which I have attempted to emulate in anitations, in various posts. But consistently producing a further reading list for every post can be quite burdensome.

Bloggers have also used footnotes. I find these interesting because they link to another section of the same post. Within this augmented section, however, you can also link to other blogs, and this similar to the “further reading section”.

Bracketed citations are basically the same thing as traditional, dead-tree parenthetical citations. [->] is the same thing as (lelangir, 2009, p. 290), only the information will be displayed more ambiguously in your browser status bar. “Hover text” (what’s it called?) helps, because it gives readers a better clue as to what the post you’re referring to is about. And because blog URLs alone can be ambiguous in that they don’t always explicitly state the blogger’s handle, having additional information is nice.

At first, I was displeased with the ambiguity of bracketed citations, but that’s not really a problem. They’re usually very clear. Ghost has a habit of using a bracketed citation which refers to the final clause of the sentence that it’s in, but not always, and that’s where it gets confusing.

It’s all nitpicking though, really.

by † admin Posted on 01 May 2009 in Collected & IKnight & OGT & ghostlightning & lelangir & omo

CCY, K-ON! Is a Lot Like a Little Sister (or, how I learned to stop worrying and worship Mio)

Initially I thought that lelangir’s comparison of her to Kagami was true, but given that Mio is apparently more shy girl than tsundere – probably shy girl with a side of Straight Man (Woman) is closer to the mark, this is wrong.

This can also be proven false using a Proof By Baka-Raptor, which is to say, I use big text and short sentence to say:
“Kagami sucks, Mio doesn’t, therefore Kagami != Mio.”

But despite her excellent character design and superb role in the ED (which is catchy to all hell I’ll say), Mio isn’t a show-carrier. The affection, as you might say, is only skin-deep. Her personality doesn’t drive the show the same way I would pause and squeal when Minor Hayate Girl I’m Smitten With (Hamster, Isumi, Saki, pick one) gets some development time.

Well, of course trying to huuuuge similarities will always fail just ’cause K-ON isn’t Lucky Star. Yet Mio retains some of the functionality of Kagami:

Konata says something
Kagami yells at her

Ritsu does something
Mio yells at her

The 4koma functionality is retained (must I cite examples?), since the roles are played out similarly. They’re both pragmatic too. I’m glad that Mio is shy[er than Kagami], variation is nice.

by † lelangir Posted on 24 April 2009 in CCY & Notes & Writers